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The US Fencing Association is a little confused about the homeschooling thing.

The USFA announced their Academic All American program today. Recognizing high school age fencers that are excelling academically is an admirable goal. Surprisingly, they even included homeschooolers.

From the FAQ:
I’m home schooled or attending a non-traditional school. Can I still qualify for this program?

Absolutely. Your grades, converted to a 4.0-scale GPA, must be reported as a part of the application process.

From the application.
Home schooled athletes must provide documentation from an accredited organization overseeing the high school athlete verifying his GPA if no seal is available.

Grades? What are these grades they speak of?

To be fair to the USFA, I’m guessing to them, a homeschooler is somebody that was in school until they made the world travel team, and now they are doing some sort of correspondence course because they are traveling the world fencing for the US. Those kids will have grades. There are probably 10 of them in the USFA. There are probably a few hundred “traditional” homeschoolers that will not have grades to provide for the All American Program.

I don’t necessarily have an answer for them. However, I have emailed the person in charge and pointed out the problem, and offered my help. So homeschoolers, how does a homeschooled high school student with no grades take part in this program, fairly. It’s not fair to the kids in school being judged by the government to allow the HS parents to make up grades. I’m thinking they should have an alternative test based path that would also apply to the school kids. So it would be have a 3.5 GPA, or score in the 90 percentile (or whatever) of the CAT, PSAT, SAT, etc. Obviously this won’t please the anti-testing crowd, but what are you going to do? It a program built around measuring academic success with numbers. Whether or not that is a good idea is not the issue here.

{ 18 } Comments

  1. Daryl Cobranchi | October 6, 2009 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

    3. The required application, recommendation letters and certification must be submitted to US Fencing by January 15th, 2010 with a $30.00 per athlete processing fee. Incomplete applications will not be processed.

    IAATM? :-)

  2. COD | October 6, 2009 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    Well, the USFA was over $1 mill in debt when the USOC took them over last year… I don’t see this making enough to really be IAATM. But if it is, they should be motivated to find a way to include HSers :)

    And US Fencing Association Academic All American would look good on a college application.

  3. Jeanne | October 6, 2009 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Please don’t recommend the SAT route or other standardized test. As mom to two great homeschooled kids who do not necessarily excel on such tests and are doing well in college, I don’t want anyone to mistake these for any kind of indicator that should be gatekeeping kids in or out of anything else. We only add to the problem if we as homeschoolers pretend otherwise.

    I say, why not point out that many homeschoolers don’t use grades as part of an overall educational philosophy, and perhaps offer the possibility of a narrative transcript. Some colleges even use these.

  4. JJ Ross | October 6, 2009 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    There are states that have worked out similar criteria for home education scholarship eligibility. I know Florida’s had one for years (haven’t used it though and I think it does include the SAT or some such.)

    But I’m wondering — independent hsers here register with the school supt, and this district is accredited. If the supt would confirm for this purpose (no money, no limit on the number who can qualify, right? — so you really aren’t acing out anyone else unfairly) then that should meet the documentation requirement.

    Remember, the goal is caring about both academics and athletics enough to excel at both. If your HEK does — there you go!

    Another thought: remember college without high schgool. By 15 or 16 you could have community college course grades from dual enrollment to submit. That would meet the criteria and it’s plenty soon enough for university applications.

  5. JJ Ross | October 6, 2009 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    There are states that have worked out similar criteria for home education scholarship eligibility. I know Florida’s had one for years (haven’t used it though and I think it does include the SAT or some such.)

    But I’m wondering — independent hsers here register with the school supt, and this district is accredited. If the supt would confirm “grades” for this purpose (no money, no limit on the number who can qualify, right? — so you really aren’t acing out anyone else unfairly) then that should meet the documentation requirement. If a HEK wanted to do it that way.

    Remember, the goal is caring about both academics and athletics enough to excel at both. If your HEK does — there you go!

    Another thought: remember college without high school. By 15 or 16 you could have community college course grades from dual enrollment to submit. That would meet the criteria and it’s plenty soon enough for university applications.

  6. L | October 7, 2009 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    I wonder how they are interpreting “accredited,” as many private schools do not have a stamp of approval from any recognized accrediting board.

    Running into a similar situation with a college application spurred me on to create an “umbrella school,” a private school recognized by the state (FL) that allows parents and students to continue homeschooling with the benefit of official enrollment in a school. I realize though that this might not be an option for students in some states.

    Testing as a requirement of homeschooling is irksome, but testing as a means of applying to a program seems fair enough. But then, what test?

  7. Alasandra | October 7, 2009 at 5:39 am | Permalink

    You left out the ACT. Which is what Sean took to get into college.

    I think a compromise could be worked out with the child in question scoring in a certain percentile on a nationally recognized test of the parents choice.

    The SAT isn’t offered here.

  8. Mike Morones | October 7, 2009 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Pardon my ignorance but I’m curious what the process is when a homeschooled kid applies to college? Don’t they want to know gpa, etc? -Mike

  9. Valerie | October 7, 2009 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    My initial reaction is from left field (probably a socialist field, as a distant family member recently informed me during a health care legislation ‘discussion’).

    With an acknowledgment that the program in question is called “Academic All American,” what does academic proficiency have to do with the sport?

    My view is grounded in my (apparently far too long, according to that recent critique of my views) experience of military youth center sports, and watching German community clubs. In both cases, a person joins/pays member fee, and participates. The American/British (Puritanical? — only the deserving?) model of sports&school doesn’t play a role in either the German or military youth center formats. Sport is sport, and school is school. One’s performance in either venue doesn’t affect one’s participation/membership in the other.

    The British school/sport connection, and the German community club model are demonstrated in this blurb about International Schools:

    ===================================
    Competitions are arranged with other international schools and local German clubs.
    ===================================
    (International Schools are outside the German school system; German schools don’t have sport teams, or didn’t when we lived there)

    The German Verein system is community-centered, not school-centered. I assume that people who are not academically lauded, but are otherwise talented, find acceptable and rewarding participation in groups that want participants who can function within each groups’ ‘mandate’ (tennis, small animal breeding, gardening, chess, horse riding, shooting, soccer, Volksmarching, to name the few that come to mind from the last town we lived in). Each Verein has child, teen and adult members — just people who live in the community and have an interest — and I’m assuming there is some ‘professional connection’ a la the highschool/college/minor league/major league track in American sport. I know my daughters completed the first levels of [blanking on name -- it's been some years] the German equestrian competency tests.

    I realize that in the U.S., we have an (unexamined, as far as I can tell) schoolsystem-athletic complex for some activities, and that a lot of money is in play. How to finesse homeschooler participation when homeschoolers don’t universally subscribe either to the connection or to the weighting? Dunno, other than to either educate the powers that be, or give ‘em what they want.

  10. Valerie | October 7, 2009 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Oopsy-doodle. I used s and the URL disappeared.

    Bavarian Internation Schools e.V.
    Athletic Programme
    http://www.bis-school.com/content/view/44/111/

  11. Meg | October 7, 2009 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    bunch of thoughts…

    JJ – here in Indiana we don’t have anything like the possibility that you are suggesting of having the registering with someone in the ps, so they can confirm grades, so that option would be out.

    Mike – my son didn’t have a GPA when he applied to college with SAT and AP scores. He still was awarded scholarships that according the the colleges’ websites required certain GPAs. So, no, homeschoolers do not need GPAs when getting into colleges.

    and

    Jeanne – This is an optional standing that is stressing both skill in a sport as well as academic achievement, I think asking homeschooled kids to take some sort of nationally standardized test is not out of line if they want to participate.

    And so my answer would be to allow homeschooled kids to submit SAT/ACT scores in place of grades.

  12. JJ Ross | October 7, 2009 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    On the Meg to Mike thread — my daughter had neither grades nor any standardized test score yet she is a scholarship junior at the age of 19, at a major research public university. How? Those lovely community college courses she chose to play in, starting at age 15 as dual enrollment with homeschooling. It creates accredited grades on a real college transcript and universities LOVE it.

    Almost like magic! :)

  13. JJ Ross | October 7, 2009 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Valerie puts it well: “Dunno, other than to either educate the powers that be, or give ‘em what they want.”

    Some of both, all at the same time, each of us doing our bit for our own kids riding the bicycle as we fix it up to be better the next time around?

    Something I sent to a television producer looking for “the smartest kids in America” about 10 years ago:

    I am reluctant to put her forward as an example of “America’s Brightest,” especially if the structure of the showcase (or rules of engagement, if you will) does violence to the very concept of intelligence by emphasizing rapid recall of simple facts rather than the higher orders of knowledge such as analysis, synthesis, original thinking — or my own favorite marker of intelligence, a well-developed sense of humor! This of course is the same problem most standardizing testing inflicts upon the national psyche.

    Far from being trick ponies or nerdy automatons, America’s True Brightest are delightful and complex individuals; what they have or have not memorized to date, is simply irrelevant to their intelligence or future contributions.

    Adult Mensans as a population, for example, tend not to have excelled at traditional trivia-type contests or linear career paths. They are interested in too many different areas to spend all their time mastering one or two. Could it be that the choice to eschew competition is more indicative of true intelligence than speed and rote memorization?

    In any case, I appreciate the interest your production is taking in the intelligence of children, and I hope that you are successful, both in this immediate endeavor and also in contributing to America’s understanding of intelligence. The tight timeline for your upcoming production may not allow consideration of such issues, but it is my hope that something I have said will spark your company’s interest in pursuing the nature of intelligence in children and in creating telegenic ways to portray it more accurately, in all its wonder.

  14. COD | October 7, 2009 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    The reality is the USFA is going to say the hell with it and exclude homeschoolers completely if it’s made too complicated. I’m not debating whether or not a national amateur sports organization should even be trying to recognize school achievement, there are certainly good arguments as to why it’s not a good idea. I suspect the genesis of the idea is that since fencing isn’t a traditional school sport like football or basketball, the kids that focus on fencing don’t have the opportunity to rack up awards for the college app the way the kids playing football or basketball do. Just guessing there though. So given that they are doing this, and they need some relatively quick and simple way to draw the line, I don’t see a better option than some arbitrary achievement level on a national normed test.

  15. JJ Ross | October 7, 2009 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Agreed, giving the option of “grades” or “test” to all kids in whatever way fits better, seems reasonable and equitable. (I guess some “independent athlete scholar” awards list is also possible, for those who won’t or can’t fit themsleves onto the school-styled list)

  16. kim | October 7, 2009 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Aw, heck, just accredit your homeschool yourself I guess.Then pass out grades.

  17. Traci | October 11, 2009 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    One of my concerns with testing is that some standardized tests like ACT. SAT etc… are not just something that you can take whenever. They are only offered a few times a year at certain locations. What if you find out you need a test & can’t find a place to take it in time to get your results?

  18. Meg | October 12, 2009 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Traci that’s true, but the SAT is now offered 10 times a year in nearly all communities and you sign up just a couple of weeks ahead of time and get the results within a month.

    While what you are saying has some bearing, it’s not like when I was a kid and it was only offered a couple of times a year.