September 22, 2005
Scott Defisks HoNDA Sect. 3(2)
(2) parents who choose this alternative education should be encouraged within the framework provided by the United States Constitution.
Chris says, “Is this the same Constitution that does not allow federal control of homeschooling? I'm totally confused because you keep referring to this document that forbids you from exerting any control of home education in the very bill that exerts federal control over home education.” Yes, Chris, it’s the same Constitution…
Congress has no power to regulate poetry, either, but that doesn’t keep us from having a Poet Laureate. I don’t see any constitutional problem with “encouraging” people who exercise an inalienable right.
The problem is political, not constitutional. The National Education Association annually votes in favor of regulating homeschooling out of existence. Some members of Congress love the idea of regulating homeschooling but hate the idea of encouraging it. Those folks have not signed on as cosponsors of this legislation.
Every cosponsor of HoNDA, by contrast, is on record as standing for the proposition that homeschooling cannot be regulated by Congress but should be encouraged.
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Did you ever stop to think that the NEA is using HSLDA to get federal homeschool statutes so that they can later put all kinds of restrictions and undesirable legislation in there later on?
If we get roped into the federal money giveaways and other junk that ties public schools into federal legislation then we will all be in the same boat.. I don't want to be in their boat.. They can keep their stupid $1500 Byrd scholarship and any other bones they toss public education.
The fact of the matter is that Homeschooling does NOT belong in the federal arena, NEA or no NEA.
Homeschoolers are sovereign and should remain so!
Wouldn't HSLDA (and the rest of us) be looking out for anything that was a change from the voluntary participation of some homeschoolers to increased regulation of all homeschoolers? Is there anything in this latest version of HONDA that imposes any sort of new restriction on homeschoolers who do not choose to participate in things like the Byrd scholarship?
Nance
Posted by: Nance Confer at September 22, 2005 02:15 PMJudy asks: "Did you ever stop to think that the NEA is using HSLDA to get federal homeschool statutes so that they can later put all kinds of restrictions and undesirable legislation in there later on?"
::stopping to think::
Yes, I have stopped to think about it, but I don't think it's all that likely. "Possible," as Dr. Bickle, my old Chemistry teacher, used to say when we suggested a new way of turning lead into gold, "but not likely."
Posted by: Scott W. Somerville at September 22, 2005 02:53 PM"Is there anything in this latest version of HONDA that imposes any sort of new restriction on homeschoolers who do not choose to participate in things like the Byrd scholarship?"
Heck yes...
Adding Homeschooling language in federal legislation places restrictions on all of us when somewhere sometime the federal government will have to determine what the term homeschooling means.. right now there is no federal definition of that term and we have 50 differnet interpretations of that term in state statutes based on state's rights to decide issues like education. Some state's have a definition and others do not - some states lump homeschoolers in with private schools and others do not. HSLDA wants the Federal Government to have one definition (no doubt one that HSLDA will dictate and influence)that will supercede state statutes and restrict us all. Sorry, but I don't want HSLDA or the government or anyone else dictating who or what is a homeschooler. That definition should be determined locally. I have access to my own state legislators as do you to yours, and we have the power to make changes on the state level much more easily than on the federal level. I believe that is what our founders intended for issues that are not stated powers of the federal government in the Constitution.
Homeschooling issues do not belong in the federal discussion, or in federal statute, Period.
Well, I was hoping for a comment from Scott. I have pretty well memorized your "thoughts" on this, Judy.
Scott, to clarify -- this thread mentioned the Byrd scholarship. I am wondering if there is any restriction in HONDA on how I homeschool if I don't choose to seek a Byrd scholarship. Just as an example.
As you go through each section, perhaps you could point out what would change for me and for other hsers if we don't, for instance, seek to have our children enlisted in the military, or participate in whatever program or option is being discussed. If none, that would be good to know. If HONDA provides an option for hsers participating in whatever program or option is being discussed but, at the same time, places a burden on hsers who are not participating, that would be good to know.
I am enjoying the way this is broken into sections -- it seems like a good way to address such a large piece of legislation. But I'd also like some sort of score card -- effects me if I don't participate, does not effect me if I don't participate.
Thanks for your time and thanks to the blog owner here for hosting this informative discussion.
Nance
Posted by: Nance Confer at September 22, 2005 04:20 PMScott, the arguments presented here are illustrative of my earlier point. If we codify a prescriptive definition of some measure to determine if a homeschooler is sufficiently educated for some particular purpose, what prevents our powerful adversaries-- NEA/AFT/UFT/Education lobby -- from coming back next year complaining that the definition is too lenient and needs to be more restrictive? The NEA may not be "using HSLDA to get federal homeschool statutes so that they can later put all kinds of restrictions...," but they certainly will use the language of HoNDA to whatever advantage they can if it passes.
Posted by: Tad at September 22, 2005 06:02 PMTurning lead into gold ain't that tough-- http://icn2.umeche.maine.edu/genchemlabs/Lab_Reports/samplelab.htm
Posted by: Daryl at September 23, 2005 06:21 AMYou know I also take offense at the notion that homeschooling is form of an "alternative education" as if public school is the only acceptable model. It is not alternative, it is in fact the original way in which children were educated.
Public schooling has only become more mainstream because of the compulsory attendance laws that were adopted during the industrial revolution to 1) make employment for teachers 2) to stem the growth of child labor which by our standards today was abusive and exploitive.
People throughout the ages have always been responsible for teaching their children, or hiring a tutor privately if they had the wealth to do so.
Public education is fairly new on the scene and in my opinion is the alternative to sovereign parental instruction.
That phrase "alternative education" only feeds into the notion set up by the NEA that homeschooling is somehow oddball and inferior to
public education, and conjures up the same type of
notions some people hold regarding alternative medicine and alternative lifestyles. Anything alternative is usually viewed not as just another choice, but one which is perhaps questionable and somehow devoid of standards.
Daryl, having checked the lab report carefully, I'm going to have to fall back on the inestimable Dr. Bickle's original dicta: "Possible... not likely."
Judy, I agree with your account of the history of education in America. You correctly point out why this makes the term "alternative education" objectionable. Can you suggest another term that might work better?
Nance, I like your scorecard idea but don't know how to use Chris's blogging software well enough to make it work. I can whip up a spreadsheet but don't know how to post it. If we were over on the NHEN boards we could set up a poll for each section of HoNDA. Any volunteers for that mission?
Tad, I'm always concerned about the "legislative crack-down" scenario. I get your point but I'm not sure you've thought it all the way through. Let's explore it as it applies to the Higher Education changes in HoNDA Section 4.
Under current law, you can get into the college of your choice if you are willing to wait until you turn 18 and then take a GED. If we open up a clear and specific homeschool track, we don't take away the GED track.
If we just use the college example, you'll see that the only way Congress could "crack down" on homeschoolers under HoNDA would be to raise the standards for passing the GED at the same time they tightened up on homeschooling. But if they monkey with the GED, we're in exactly the same trouble with or without HoNDA. So I can't quite see how the "crack down" argument really works here.
Posted by: Scott W. Somerville at September 23, 2005 01:16 PMNance, I like your scorecard idea but don't know how to use Chris's blogging software well enough to make it work. I can whip up a spreadsheet but don't know how to post it. If we were over on the NHEN boards we could set up a poll for each section of HoNDA. Any volunteers for that mission?
**Maybe when Chris gets back from camping he can help us figure out how to post your spreadsheet here. Just thinking it would be helpful to keep all of this in one place for later referene.
Nance
Posted by: Nance Confer at September 23, 2005 05:43 PMSomebody send me the scorecard spreadsheet and I can convert it to a PDF and upload to the site.
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