September 26, 2005
Scott Defisks HoNDA Sect. 9: Labor Hours
SEC. 9. CLARIFICATION OF THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT AS APPLIED TO STUDENTS PRIVATELY EDUCATED AT HOME UNDER STATE LAW.
Section 3(l) of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (29 U.S.C. 203(l)) is amended by adding at the end the following: `The Secretary shall extend the hours and periods of permissible employment applicable to employees between the ages of 14 and 16 years of age who are privately educated at a home school (whether the home school is treated as a home school or a private school under State law) beyond such hours and periods applicable to employees between the ages of 14 and 16 years of age who are educated in traditional public schools.’
Chris says, “Another case of attacking the symptom and not the cause. And of course, now we'll need Federal interpretation of whether or not you are actually a bone fide homeschooler, or just a truant, so they can decide who is and isn't violating federal labor laws. And again, it's another special law for homeschoolers. If it's a good idea for 14 year old HEK's to be allowed to work at 2 PM, it's a good idea for all 14 year olds to be allowed to work at 2 PM.”
Frankly, I agree with Chris on this one. I don’t mean that HoNDA Section 9 is a bad idea; just that it’s a good idea for all 14 year olds to be allowed to work at 2 pm.
We’re a long way from the bad old days when child labor was a degrading horror. The youth of today may need more labor in their lives, not less. Even the dropouts and habitual truants would arguably be better off if they were able to work instead of just hanging out around the street corner.
Having said that, I'd be happy to have somebody expand HoNDA Section 9 to make it work for all children. Until then, I'm going to work for homeschoolers.
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The proposal regarding the Child Labor Laws is unnecessary. States may "cite the federal law" but that does not mean that the individual states have no authority to correct the situation on their own. The problem of homeschooler/teen employment during school hours may be a result of implementation by uninformed administrators rather than a legal problem. This particular piece of legislation will cause a myriad of problems in states like California. The eventual loss or compromise of rights of many homeschoolers is a terrible price to pay so that a teen can work for minimum wage during school hours.
Solution: If necessary, work to change your own state labor laws if teen employment during school hours is a problem.
Young people would be generally better off given the free choice and opportunity to work and learn in the workplace, than if they were compelled to be present at an institution that has provem at best ineffective and at worst outright destructive.
Posted by: damaged justice at September 27, 2005 03:47 PMJudy, are you aware that the States are not free to let young people work when the feds prohibit it?
Posted by: Scott W. Somerville at September 27, 2005 04:07 PMThe feds do not prohibit it now.. have you read the federal labor laws? there is absolutely nothing there that prohibits homeschoolers from working during school hours. That would entirely be under State law at this point as to what the State Labor statutes may have to say about homeschoolers or any child wanting to work "during school hours".
I know what my laws in CT have to say about it - There are time and hour restrictions for minors (by industry) in CT - and the rules differ from state to state. I encourage everyone to examine your own state statutes regarding teenagers and labor. Specific rules have also been put in place regarding the School to Work program which you may or may not be aware of. But in this case the federal government has said nothing about working during school hours.
The section which HSLDA wishes to amend currently says this:
(see it for yourself at
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode29/usc_sec_29_00000203----000-.html )
“Oppressive child labor” means a condition of employment under which
(1) any employee under the age of sixteen years is employed by an employer (other than a parent or a person standing in place of a parent employing his own child or a child in his custody under the age of sixteen years in an occupation other than manufacturing or mining or an occupation found by the Secretary of Labor to be particularly hazardous for the employment of children between the ages of sixteen and eighteen years or detrimental to their health or well-being) in any occupation, or
(2) any employee between the ages of sixteen and eighteen years is employed by an employer in any occupation which the Secretary of Labor shall find and by order declare to be particularly hazardous for the employment of children between such ages or detrimental to their health or well-being; but oppressive child labor shall not be deemed to exist by virtue of the employment in any occupation of any person with respect to whom the employer shall have on file an unexpired certificate issued and held pursuant to regulations of the Secretary of Labor certifying that such person is above the oppressive child-labor age. The Secretary of Labor shall provide by regulation or by order that the employment of employees between the ages of fourteen and sixteen years in occupations other than manufacturing and mining shall not be deemed to constitute oppressive child labor if and to the extent that the Secretary of Labor determines that such employment is confined to periods which will not interfere with their schooling and to conditions which will not interfere with their health and well-being.
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There is nothing in there now that says homeschoolers cannot work during school hours.. it merely says that employment cannot interfere with a child's schooling.
HSLDA is promoting putting the term homeschooling in yet another Federal statute unnecessarily.
NHELD does recommend that the federal government get involved in regulating and setting the hours when homeschoolers can and cannot work. Additional language, regarding homeschoolers, appearing in Federal Law can be risky and can open up the possibility of subsequent legislation of homeschoolers. We do not feel that the risk to homeschoolers' freedom nationwide is worth any homeschool child's ability to work during the day for minimum wage. If your state laws prohibit homeschoolers from working during school hours and you wish that be changed then you should speak to your state legislators regarding that issue. Don't allow the federal government to dictate to all states the times and days that it will be allowable for homeschoolers to work!
Posted by: Judy Aron at September 28, 2005 01:55 PMThis one I'm very very very against. We had to make labor laws because workers, especially children were being abused. Extending the hours that children can work well lead to more children being abused. Children shouldn't beholding down fulltime jobs and this section gets pretty close to making it so they can work fulltime. Money fuels greed, and greed well fuel more children having to hold fulltime jobs when they shouldn't because they are children.
Posted by: Bec Thomas at September 29, 2005 03:49 PMJudy, have you read the Department of Labor regulations on this subject? HSLDA is very carefully NOT publicizing the exact wording that keeps us awake at nights, because we don't want to make today's employers nervous... but there is a real problem that we are trying to fix.
I'd be happy to talk with you privately about it.
Scott Somerville
540-338-8628
scott@hslda.org
I am not afraid Scott.. why don't you post the regulations link here for everyone to read??
If it scares you and keeps you up at night, sounds like it should be changed - but not just for homeschoolers.. maybe for everyone.
Keep homeschooling out of federal law!
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